Wednesday, July 6, 2011

Chicken Wings & Jesus Things: Casey Anthony and Jesus...

Gravy's take on the whole Casey Anthony thing. He says all that needs to be said from a Christian perspective. He deals with the follow up:

Chicken Wings & Jesus Things: Casey Anthony and Jesus...: "Well the verdict is in and she was found not guilty on murder charges or child abuse. I have been, like so many, watching the trial and..."

Thanks Jim!
Those words need to be said, even though a lot of us may feel bitter about the decision.
Here's what I want to say from a justice oriented perspective (Christian as my worldview is). 

The Jury's Decision is the Correct Decision.

I know many of you are angry that I would suggest such a thing, and if you want, you can reread my posts on "String Theory" and Osama bin Ladin and you will understand why as a Christian I can believe such a thing.
Let me say it again:

The Jury's Decision is the Correct Decision.

Now pause again, and reflect, then say it outloud, and let the saying of it free you from the emotion of the verdict.  We have a justice system where it is supposed to be easier for the guilty to go free than for the innocent to be imprisioned.
Yet sometimes, even the innocent are imprisioned:
'Franky" Carillo
Lathan Word
Larry Osbourne
Cornelius Dupree Jr
Just a few.... just a few.
Now I believe in the death penalty, because I believe in justice.  I am however, and equal believer in grace. 
I thank God today that I live in a country where the burden of proof is supposed to rest on the Prosecution, and not on the defense.  A purely rational society shouldn't be arranged in this manner, you do realize that right? I thank God that I live in a country where I can be judged by a jury of my peers, because while justice is blind, we certainly aren't.
If you want to mourn here, now is the time to mourn.
Please do so.


The Name is Abby (Abigail if I'm in trouble) said...

Well put..I agree

Anonymous said...

How Christians (and I am one) can be "for" the death penalty is beyond me? Do some research, like you did to find some examples of innocently imprisoned people, and find out who is on death row. You will find common denominators like these: poor, uneducated, and minority.

And what about advocating AGAINST one of the Ten Commandments?

How anyone can be against abortion and for the death penalty is a complete mystery...

G. Brandon Hoyt said...

You must be one of them Revelation 2:17 Christians.
all in good grace anonymous brother.
I ask the opposite question: How can a Christian be against the death penalty? Other common denominators among people on death row: they did something that deserves death as judged by the law of the land.
Better still: what was the punishment for breaking the one commandment you claim we violate when we are 'pro death penalty'?
the end as far as that part of your argument is concerned. You must understand that my flippant attitude is meant to challenge your way of thinking that somehow just because we are Christians we believe that there are no consequences for what we do. Even the act of BECOMING a Christian or PREACHING THE GOSPEL warrants the death penalty in certain parts of the world, and I don't argue whether those places should or shouldn't have that as a law. If I was in that part of the world, I hope I could be obedient all the way to the gallows or whatever horrible end I should meet.
Some scripture to scold you with: Romans 8:16, 17 "16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. " QUESTION: what did Christ suffer? If you are a Christian, you know the answer.
Another one:
I Peter 2:18-25 "18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. 22 He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. "
QUESTION: What are we to do when treated unfairly, or if we are persecuted to the death?
And to follow up: What happened to James the Apostle, Brother of John?

Finally, from the Old Testament:
Micah 6:8
"8 He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the LORD require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?"
Final QUESTION: Which one of these things does God not require of YOU?

So, this article is not about the death penalty it's about the correctness of the jury's decision, and the article I link to is about the response we should all have to the verdict. I'm on the way to writing what I believe about justice, suffering, and such things, and one day I may blog about it. I leave you with these wise words left as a comment on James' blog in reference to the article I quote from his blog:
"...We often convict from faulty information, and sometimes conviction would be the truth, and the criminal goes free. Many who deserve death go free, many who deserve life die. Who among us can give them life? So let us always be careful about giving death. I am not against the death penalty, but I am against the inconsistency with which it is often meted out. God knows more than the truth, He knows the purpose in our heart. Expect justice in the end,unless you truly know His Son; pray for grace and know that God is truly Good.. "

Anonymous said...

It amazes me that anyone thinks they have sufficient information from media coverage to judge whether she was guilty or not. It seemed like a sure thing last month that Strauss-Kahn was a rapist, but now that he's been replaced at the IMF and the day after that happened the case mysteriously fell apart, I wonder where all that surety went. Similarly, I don't have any way to be sure, especially not sure enough to denounce the jury's verdict. One would expect they are better informed, after all.


G. Brandon Hoyt said...

Thanks for your comment Alex!
Well put, and totally true. I wish people would get this worked up when people are innocently convicted of crime.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your response.

Since your response was quite lengthy, I took the opportunity to respond in kind. I apologize in advance for the length of my retort but I feel it necessary to make my point about the DEATH PENALTY.

I'm not really any type of Christian. I do however try to use the common sense the Lord gave me. I used to be a staunch supporter of the death penalty until someone spoke the truth to me about WHO actually ends up on death row. Here's a hint: they're typically NOT rich, intelligent, or white.

You quoted scripture that may or may not support your point. I used google to search NUMEROUS cases where overzealous MEN charged with carrying out what you believe to be God's demands actually did the Devil's work instead.

Here's a taste:

"On January 3, 2002, Melendez was exonerated after evidence the prosecution withheld at the original trial was discovered, including a taped confession from the actual killer. He became the 99th person out of 139 in the country since 1973 to have been exonerated for a crime of which they are innocent, according to statistics the coalition provided."


"Only a few weeks before his execution in 1999, a defense investigator learned that a cancer-stricken member of the prosecution had confessed on his deathbed to having withheld crime lab results from the defense, as well as removing a blood sample from the evidence room."

In Texas, the racial statistics are clear: Over 70% are minority. The whites on Texas death row are, for the most part, uneducated and poor.

I bet you didn't realize that the death penalty YOU SUPPORT executes innocent, retarded people too...

"In 1983, police convinced Earl Washington to make a statement concerning the rape and murder of a woman in Culpeper, VA, in 1982. The statements were used against him and in 1984 he was convicted and sentenced to death. Sixteen years later, DNA tests confirmed that Washington was innocent and he received an absolute pardon."

30 of the 44 mentally retarded individuals executed since 1984 are minorities:

I could go on and on but truthfully, it would be better if you did, G. Brandon. I respectfully asked you to research who ENDS UP on death row and you fired off a bunch of scripture.

Yes, occasionally man gets it right and imposes a death sentence on a deserving criminal. However, how many innocents are you okay with killing so that real bad guys "get what they deserve"?

Most people who are for the death penalty BELIEVE that cops, prosecutors, medical examiners, etc don't lie. Conversely, they think that MOST defense attorneys lie.

I realize that ALL PEOPLE LIE and most will LIE UNDER OATH.

The death penalty is too harsh to be left in the hands of sinful men and women. Period!

Here's one final example of why CHRISTIANS should not trust the judicial process, especially, when the death penalty is on the table:

G. Brandon Hoyt said...

Sorry Anonymous, I don't allow anonymous links, I think it's uncivil and trollish. Trolls aren't Christian, so I'm giving you a benefit of a doubt, here's the rest of your comment:
I apologize for glossing over some of the things you wrote. I sincerely wish I did not miss this quote from you:

"Other common denominators among people on death row: they did something that deserves death as judged by the law of the land."

Really? They did, huh? That is as eloquent as it is incorrect.

Consider the state of Illinois:

Currently, there is a moratorium on the death penalty in Illinois as a result of egregious prosecutions. This moratorium has been supported by 3 governors.

13 innocent people have walked out of Illinois' death row after being exonerated. Yes, they were all "found guilty", "convicted", and "sentenced to death" BUT THEY WERE ALL COMPLETELY INNOCENT OF THE CRIMES THEY WERE CONVICTED OF!

They DID NOT have a common denominator of guilt. Their's was INNOCENCE.

Incidentally, the Republican candidate for Gov in Illinois (see rich, white, and educated) is in favor of lifting the moratorium. Imagine that? He's willing to sacrifice lives for votes...all in the name of keeping the public safe. Whatever!


You mentioned a need for other people to get "worked up" when innocents are wrongfully convicted, I would implore you to do the same...

July 8, 2011 1:40 AM"

See I even preserved the timestamp!

This is not a discussion of the death penalty. I go no qualms convicting rich white people if they are guilty. I have no qualms of letting them go if they are guilty and there isn't enough evidence to convict them. same goes for poor minorities, rich minorities, or to keep the news relevant, illegal aliens.

PS: If you are going to push an agenda, make sure you answer the questions that I ask. And if you want to post a link, post your name. I allow anonymous comments because not everyone has a blogger id or an open id, not so people can promote an agenda without saying who they are.

Anonymous said...

Sorry. I posted the links to provide evidence of what I was saying. I'm not a troll; I'm not attempting to be uncivil; nor am I pushing an agenda. I was merely trying to provide some insight into a topic (Christians and the death penalty) that you initiated.

I'm going to move on and wish you and your readers well.


G. Brandon Hoyt said...

Hey Tom, no prob man, and I did see your comment that didn't post, did you mean for it not to post? You say some things that have merit, I am not tryin to be that broad right now, mainly just specific to the Casey Anthony trial.

Can I use your comments (Published and not) in a seperate blogpost? I'm looking at publishing a series of posts that will articulate a thorough definition of 'Christian Justice'. It's kind of started with some posts that I've made, but the draft for 'The Big Post' as it were is still in the works.

Anonymous said...

Brandon, I'm not sure why the other comment did not post. I thought it was removed because of the links? I did want to post it.

I don't mind you using any or all of it.

I think most people walk around thinking that the death penalty is being meted out fairly but that's simply not the case.

I understand your desire to keep this about the Casey Anthony trial and I will respect that.